Exclusive Interview and Photo Coverage: Pigeon John @ Highline Ballroom (NYC)

Plain and simple, "Underground" Hip Hop is the true home of the world's best rhymers, producers, and emcees. Pigeon John may not be a name on the tip of everyone's tongue; but he damn well deserves to be. Culminating a wealth of musical genres to form his own, very personalized style of hip hip, PJ swings on a pendulum between soul feed crooner and acid spitting rhymer. A reserved, gentle spirit on the street, John bursts into a powder keg of energy on the stage, bringing any room to its feet with his pure exuberance and special brand of humor.

In preparation of the release of his new album, "Encino Man," PJ hit the round with old time pals The Grouch & Eligh for a round of U.S. shows. We caught up with the man before his appearance at NYC's Highline Ballroom to talk a little about what makes Pigeon John tick.

Matthew Schuchman: I hate putting things in genres, but whenever I talk to someone who has a connection to hip-hop, I’m always interested to get their views. I like to think of the idea that even rock, with its 60 year history, is so young, and hip-hop’s even younger than that; it’s still growing. Do you see those jumps, as it goes along? You’re doing something different than what a lot of other people are doing as well, so how does it play in your mind, how that whole thing is evolving? Pigeon John: Personally, I would say I kind of see it as… As I get older, I look at hip-hop as very young, the same way I look at America as a very young country and that’s why it produces this music for the ages. I look at the birth of Rock and Roll, Jazz, Blues, and all their roots as the same music. We sample, we borrow from stuff, and it’s the same voice though. Rock and Roll, if you will, recreates itself as that, but it’s not main Rock and Roll. That’s when it’s good, I think. MS: It’s hard to put it into words but I have the same feelings. Anything that’s good, no matter what it sounds like, I see it as the same thing. That’s it. That’s it right there. PJ: I get excited, because I hear a lot of new artists, young dudes, and new voices. In Hip-Hop, when they do stuff in their own little cool voice, I get excited, as a music fan, that it’s still recreating its self. It’s leaving you and coming to you at the same time. It kind of answers everybody’s questions. MS: What about your own personal evolution, though? PJ: In the beginning, I used to do it the Hip-Hop way and get beats from other people. Sometimes I work with national artists to get their voice on your record and vice versa. With Dragon Slayer, I wanted to just take whatever I was hearing and put it down and write it as best as I can. I got excited because I felt like it was my voice and my style of Hip-Hop. It felt like, it was my cementing album, I felt like at least I went wherever I was going to go once and after that, it’s good. It might be shit, at the same time. That’s how I’ve grown and in my mind, saying rap is the same as blues music and vice versa, so all the MC’s are named the same. You’ve got Little Stevie Wonder and you’ve got Lil Wayne. It hasn’t changed. It’s the same voice. It’s cool to find my own voice, whatever Pigeon John is, is that. It’s a simple hurdle to climb over, seemingly. To me, it’s been a very slow process. MS: You’re kind of pin pointing to something that I’ve noticed, where there’s even songs on this album – I look at “Dave the Dopefiend” for instance and I’m like, “That’s a folk song.” That’s what it reminds me of. Folk singers are also story tellers and you’re a story teller. Are there genres you don’t even think about that you notice feeding into your stuff? PJ: Yeah, I don’t notice it. I can see that. I love the influence of getting outside yourself and taking a picture of someone’s life. Those are my favorite songs. The artists that I look up to or I’ve totally enjoyed, most of their songs are about other people. I think that’s a better way to talk about self. I never considered “Dave the Dopefiend” a folk song. I consider it Hip-Hop music. This is Hip-Hop music now. Jungle brothers, their first record, I literally listened to it, being a Hip-Hop fan, and I said the magic question: “What is this?” I kind of got angry, because I bought the tape because of this older guy, who said, “You’ve gotta get this and you’ve gotta get this.” I was looking for The Steady Beat and he said, “You need to listen to the Jungle Brothers.” And I bought it and thought, “ehhh.” But then I totally got it and they’re an example of no rules and whatever. It’s dope. Then on the second record they actually did a blues song, in the same format, but I thought it was Hip-Hop. The whole way that Dylan looked up to Guthrie, is the same way that I look up to The Jungle Brothers. It just goes on and on. We keep re-defining each other.

MS: You definitely have your own voice, no doubt about it. When I sit and listen to some of the songs on your new album, I hear certain things. I know you weren’t being literally in “Perfect Formality” (Off Pigeon John Sings the Blues) when you said; “All I want to do is be Radiohead and do something ingenious.” Yet, All These Roads (the opening track off Encino Man) has a very Radiohead feel to it. When you go back and listen to a song after you wrote it, do you kind of now say, “Maybe I was hearing something that made me write it like this”? PJ: Sure. When I look back at it, it’s almost like I imagine if De La Soul had made the record back in 1982, how would it sound? Then I get excited and say, “They would probably do it like this, and this will be a hit.” I trick myself in the studio, like, “This song will change everything!” It’s kind of like skating, when you want to pull off a trick, it’s just a trick, but for you that’s your whole day. You try and when you do it, if no one is around, it’s even better, because you did it. The whole process is enjoyable. I like to imagine it’s all the same voice, you know? I like to be influenced by modern day things, as well as the past. Chuck Berry’s been blowing my mind, his performances, and his cadences. We’re all pretty much Hip-Hop. I like to have big ears and kind of soak it all in. It doesn’t matter if it’s the same chord as The Doors biggest hit, because, for me, I’m of the sampling age. I’m a sampler, even if I’m not sampling. If that little shift that’s on Father John Misty’s third song and he never went back to it, if I start right off of that one beat, that’s Hip-Hop the way they like it… 4 bars only. The rest is shit, but this… I’ll play your song; that one part over and over. That Hip Hop thing is still there, on the piano. It’s all the same voice.

MS: Now if you wanted to, you could write an entire album of songs like, “The Bomb” (The opening track of Dragon Slayer). That, or you could just say “hey, I’ll just do it like everyone else and simply write my own lyrics and lay them over the entirety of someone else’s song, and just make it big.” Is it ever hard to fight those urges and do what you want to do? PJ: Sometimes I say, “I’m going to try to make this a hit.” That’s hard. I look at some pop songs and I’m like, “That’s kind of fucking hard.” I’m going to make a song like that. “Fucking do it then.” They did it. It’s always starts making some left turn and it turns into something else, but in my mind, I’m still influenced by Britney Spears. “That was a dope little part. I’m going to do it this way.” Another band that I really like is Silverchair. But the third or fourth record, when they started being so arty, it was like a diorama or something. I love their art but when I try to make a song like that, it becomes “Excuse Me” (off Dragon Slayer). When I go for it, it’s always going to come out the way I put it out, so I do it in my own way. MS: When I meet people who don’t know you, I try to explain just your live show alone. I remember the first time I saw you live you simply came out, dropped the needle just like that, you were off. It’s amazingly entertaining, you just like that. I tell people, “He’s like the Hip-Hop Frank Zappa, because he’s having fun lyrically and personality wise, but everything he does behind the music is very serious.” Do you put thought into your stage persona, would you say? PJ: I like to put together the show from the Good Life Café days, where Paul’s mixing your instrumental and then formulating your song, whether it be written or freestyle, but just kind of painting through what you do every week. So I approach these shows the same way, whether it’s a 30 minute set or 15, or an hour and 15. I like doing it, because it’s kind of like being in the studio, which is my favorite part of this whole thing. Just putting pieces together like, “If I do this one, it’s going to make this one work better.” Musically, but with the show, I just go for it. I just try to present an open book and have fun. I just let that come out naturally, depending on the reaction too. Pigeon John's new album "Encino Man" drops on April 29th. Head over to the Pigeon John Web Store for a bundled version of this release, now. Check out more interviews on IPaintMyMind here.